Hi there, dance friends. I’m Margaret Fuhrer, editor and producer of The Dance Edit newsletter and podcast. Welcome to the third episode of The Dance Edit Extra!

This week we have a wide-ranging conversation with the absolutely lovely Garen Scribner, who is the ultimate multi-hyphenate—dancer, TV host, video director and producer, he is doing and has done everything.

And this recording is almost like a time capsule, because I actually talked to Garen back at the beginning of the summer, before he headed up to Harvard to begin his masters in public administration. Now he is on campus, very much in the thick of that masters program, where he is learning how to be the kind of ethical, well-informed arts leader that the dance world urgently needs. So, the hypotheticals that he spins in this conversation about how to support dance artists—now he’s figuring out how to make them realities.

Anyway, thanks again to you all for subscribing to the Edit Extra, and be sure to check back here for new episodes every other Saturday. Enjoy

[pause]

Margaret Fuhrer:
I am really excited to be here now with a true dance Renaissance man, Garen Scribner. Hi, Garen!

Garen Scribner:
Hi there. How’s it going, Margaret?

Margaret Fuhrer:
Going okay. Thank you so much for joining.

Garen Scribner:
Thanks for having me.

Margaret Fuhrer:
I’m sorry to make the Renaissance man reference, because I feel like every interview with you now begins that way, but….

Garen Scribner:
[laughter] I’ll take it. It was great.

Margaret Fuhrer:
I mean, it would almost feel weird not to say it, given your bio—listen to this. Garen has danced with San Francisco Ballet and Nederlands Dans Theater. He starred as Jerry Mulligan in An American in Paris, both on Broadway and on tour. He is the creator of multiple performing arts-themed series for PBS All Arts, and has many other credits as a producer as well. And now he’s about to head to Harvard to get his master’s in public administration. So he’s seen the dance world from all these different angles.

But Garen, now that I’ve given that headline-news version of your story, can you start out by telling listeners what you think they should know about your relationship with dance and the arts?

Garen Scribner:
I’m proud, proud, proud. I used to be kind of like, “Yeah, I’m a dancer.” And now I’m like, “I’m a dancer. I always will be.” I feel like I’m going to self-ban the phrase “former dancer” from my lexicon. And I encourage other people to do it too. Because I’m a dancer, I always will be. And I might do a hundred other things, but I’ll always be a dancer first and approach every facet of my life with that as square one. Because it’s such a fun starting place.

I used to hide at the gym if I was ever doing a barre or something. You know on that squishy floor, where you can put up some push ups? I do barre there now, in the middle of the gym, because I love it. The people come by… Where I used to maybe be a little ashamed or afraid, people come by, they’re kind of like, “Thumbs up!” Like, “You’re doing ballet!” And people have a different appreciation for it these days. So I’m all about it.

Margaret Fuhrer:
You’re an evangelist now, fully doing barre at the gym.

Garen Scribner:
Loud and proud.

Margaret Fuhrer:
You know when it comes to summing up your career, I think actually “creative nomad” is a better term than Renaissance man. Because it’s not just that you’re doing all the things all the time—although you are—but it’s that you seem to be seeking out new perspectives all the time. So what would you say are the common threads that connect all your varied experiences in and around the dance world?

Garen Scribner:
I’d say, stories and newness. So when I was in San Francisco BalletI went to a summer program at the San Francisco Ballet, and I saw the company, and I was able to just peek in the doorway and look at those dancers. And I saw people like Yuan Yuan Tan, and Chidozie Nzerem, and Ikolo Griffin, and Hunsuke Yamamoto. Some of my favorite dancers in the world—Muriel Maffre, all these people. And I was fascinated by them as dancers, but I was fascinated by them as people. And so it was like, I want to be a part of this community. I want to be in this space. That led me to San Francisco Ballet.

And then in terms of the work, the choreographers who came through that space, like Bill Forsythe and Wayne McGregor and all kinds of great makers, Christopher Wheeldon. I was attracted to the new work in such a profound way.

I liked the classics, but I was never going to be the prince. I was always the best friend. And that was fun, and I liked the acting part of it. But I was always into the new work. I thought it was so exciting.

And so then I think I followed that thread to Nederlands Dans Theater, where I danced next. And then I always was curious about Broadway because I wanted to sing and I wanted to be able to talk on stage—I don’t know if you can tell, but I’m comfortable talking—and I wanted to explore all these different facets. So I think, really I was interested in kind of various communities and people’s stories and just connecting to people. And that’s what sort of guided me through all these various stages of my career so far.

Margaret Fuhrer:
Well, I want to talk about your work as a producer in particular, because that started well before the pandemic, but for sort of obvious reasons, you’ve been busy with a lot of video projects recently. What was it initially that interested you in video in the production side of things?

Garen Scribner:
So I used to make all these experimental dance videos with one of my best friends in the world, Brian Gibbs and Matthew Taylor back in my early days of San Francisco. So it was about 2004, 2005. And we probably made a hundred different experimental dance films that never went anywhere.

Margaret Fuhrer:
I was going to say, do they still live somewhere?

Garen Scribner:
I can send them to you! I mean, they exist. And we would do certain things like, super slow-frame stuff, like 30 frames per second. And I would just do like a double tour, land on the floor, and it would be three minutes of just one move to cool Radiohead music. We didn’t have rights to anything. We were just having fun.

So I always loved the idea of dance on film and video production, but I was always busy performing. And after, when I was doing An American in Paris, I was in New York. And my good friend, Rebecca Soldinger, she’s a producer at “The Rachel Ray Show.” We went to UNCSA together, actually, in high school. And she’s been producing daytime TV for 10 years or whatever at this point. And she was like, “Wouldn’t it be fun to do a show? Why don’t we make up a show where we interview other people? And we talk about what’s going on behind the scenes.” And that’s how we came up with “Broadway Sandwich,” for All Arts.

And so that’s really when I got the kind of producing and making bug. And I also just started to really learn about the camera, as a host on camera, but also behind the scenes, how to produce and write and interview people. And that’s kind of where I started to figure it out really. And, then I did another series for All Arts after “Broadway Sandwich.” We did 18 episodes of “Broadway Sandwich” and 10 episodes of, “And the Tony Nominees Are…” Another series. And that I think is sort of where I started.

But I really loved it because I had so much agency. I mean, I just… The world I know, but the behind the scenes stuff of like, how do you fund these things? How does post-production work? There’s so much that goes into it and what does each person do in the crew, and how to manage all of that and support those people so that your product is compelling and interesting to watch, and fun for everybody to be involved in.

Margaret Fuhrer:
Do you think “Broadway Sandwich” might come back someday?

Garen Scribner:
I have a strong feeling that it will. We’re actually talking with the network right now about season three. And we were supposed to do season three, but of course it has been put on hold because of the pandemic, but we are very much hoping to do season three, as soon as Broadway is back.

Margaret Fuhrer:
That’s great news, because that’s exactly what you were just saying, is exactly what makes it so appealing: It’s that mix of, this world that you understand deeply, and yet you still have this profound curiosity about exploring all the parts that you don’t know quite as well.

Garen Scribner:
It’s always story, Margaret. It’s always people’s stories. And I think there’s something about the lack of stories for people who are outside of the dance world, where they don’t have an access point, because they might feel like they don’t understand ballet. It’s too elite. It’s some kind of sophisticated language that I don’t understand. But as soon as you tell people the story about that particular dancer or the backstory about that ballet, when it was made, or the composer or whatever, you give people an access point. They find it more interesting and they have something to root for.

It’s like when you see somebody fall onstage—hopefully they don’t get hurt, but all of a sudden, an audience member who might not understand it, but who says “That just looks so easy,” and then they realize it’s not easy at all, it’s super hard. And then they’re like—they cheer for you twice as much at the end of the show, because it’s been put into perspective for them, how much goes into it.

Margaret Fuhrer:
You’re immediately on the side of that performer. Yeah.

Garen Scribner:
Exactly.

Margaret Fuhrer:
Well, speaking of telling stories, so during the shutdown, you’ve made a couple of videos that have really resonated with viewers that tell funny stories, like “Wilis in Corps-en-tine,” and “Swan Lake: Cancelled.” They both feel especially noteworthy because it seems like a lot of people, especially dance people, are almost afraid to be funny right now during this moment of crisis. I mean, obviously a lot of people have been impacted in very profound ways by the pandemic and by the social justice movements that have gained so much momentum during the pandemic.

So, how did these videos come to be? How did you and Danielle Rowe, your creative partner in crime here, know that actually humor was exactly what we all needed?

Garen Scribner:
Yes, Danni Rowe, that is my ace boom boom, I love her. We had so much fun making these, first and foremost, but it’s been a really hard time. Like you said, there’s been so much going on and laughter is healing. And while we’re in this reset—you mentioned the social justice movement working towards anti-racist systems, de-colonialising our minds—we are in this reset and in this space where we have an opportunity to ventilate what have been these closed stale chambers. And so that’s why Danni and I have been like, “Let’s give people this access point to these stories.” Which, these works are so close to our hearts. And so many dancers, we love Giselle, we love Swan Lake, we love Nutcracker. Especially if you grew up doing them. Now I’m performing them hundreds of times. So it’s a chance to be like, “Huh, what is it about these works that have allowed them to withstand the test of time? And how can we re-approach them in ways that open them up for discussion? Let us have a laugh and really get people interested in dance.”

It was like I said, people find ballet unapproachable sometimes. For me, as I’ve traversed these different genres of my career—ballet, Broadway, TV, commercials, whatever—doing all those different things has allowed me to kind of zoom out and look at dance, and particularly concert dance and European centric dance from the outside in. And I saw how unapproachable ballet can be to so many people. So I’m always interested in creating those kinds of inroads for new folks to understand the form. And letting people access dance from different angles, because like we say, the more people understand something and help people find common ground with it, the more they connect with it.

Margaret Fuhrer:
Access and catharsis.

Garen Scribner:
And what’s funnier than making fun of these iconic, fabulous, but pretty outlandish storylines, in the community of classical ballet? It’s like, while we’re on the subject of reframing everything, let’s look at these narratives and see what’s gone uninvestigated for a long time, have a laugh.

And it gives these dancers a chance to act too—to learn about themselves, learn about the camera and cultivate talents that they already have, but might not even know because they’ve never been asked to do that, and nurture those things. I love directing dancers. It’s really just psychology. I sort of use a behavioral approach with these dancers to get them to see something that I see, from the outside in that they have, but they might not be using. So that’s really exciting for me.

Margaret Fuhrer:
Yeah. And that type of performing, that type of acting is something that isn’t a part of a lot of dancers’ traditional sort of concert-oriented training.

Garen Scribner:
No. But it should be.

Margaret Fuhrer:
Well that’s the thing, is that it clearly should be. And I think this past year has made it clear.

Garen Scribner:
Yeah.

Margaret Fuhrer:
But dance in particular has always had this complicated relationship with film. And now that the pandemic has sort of forced us all to explore that medium, do you, as someone who’s always loved it, see a change in dance world attitudes toward film generally and choreography for the camera specifically?

Garen Scribner:
Here’s the thing. Dance film, dance for the camera, has been happening for a long, long time, for decades and decades. And good dance film. I mean the Nicholas Brothers, Cab Calloway and that thing from “Jumpin’ Jive“…

Margaret Fuhrer:
Stormy Weather. Yeah.

Garen Scribner:
Heaven. But for me, it’s like, we have in a way already mastered dance for the camera. The big dance number from An American in Paris… “Thriller”! There’s so much great stuff. Sidi Larbi making things for Beyoncé, Thom Yorke, Anima, all that stuff. So my feeling is like, “Well, when you say that dance has a complicated and fraught relationship with film”—I’m not sure if I agree. I think that for formal dance on camera, like ballet and modern dance, performance art on camera, I think that there is room for growth. And that goes for the big companies across the board. They’re not quite getting it yet.

And again, I think it is access. There’s no access point for people. And that access point is stories. So if you have an amazing dance sequence in a movie, Dirty Dancing or Footloose or something, people are into it. Nothing moves storytelling like dance, when it’s used in the right way. As long as we’re invested in that story…and whether it’s a celebrity who’s doing a dance on stage in that mask thing [“The Masked Dancer”], people are watching it because they want to know who it is. And they have a relationship with that person and never met that person, but they feel like they know them. And so they have an access point.

But if we just show them ballets or dancers in the field that they’ve never heard of, they might say, “That was really cool.” But they’re not going to pay for it. They’re not going to tune into it. So we sort of have to educate people. And I think it’s about showing what happens behind the scenes and showing the rigor that goes into it. And I think dance companies need to also be media companies these days, in the coming decades.

Margaret Fuhrer:
Yeah. And I think you’re right: that question was framed poorly because really what I’m talking about is sort of the big players in the concert dance scene, and how they’ve been hesitant to kind of venture into the realm of film. But now they are.

Garen Scribner:
I think it’s what’s on people’s minds and it’s what people are saying. They’re like, “How do we do this thing? How do we put dance on camera?” And it’s like, we know how to do it. I think that there is a lack of the same kind of technique and rigor that goes into the performance of the dance itself on stage, that same kind of intricacy and strategic planning, and the kind of resources we put into that has to be put into the filmmaking. And it’s unfair to say like, “Oh, they should be ready to do it.” Because they’ve never done it. So every dance company across the country is calling the local videographer and saying, “Hey, can you help out?” And the filmmakers are like, sure—but they’re not used to making this work. And so there’s a big disconnect. And so we have to have people who understand both worlds to be able to bridge those things. And there are some amazing examples of that, but it’s a new form for a lot of folks. So, these things take time.

Margaret Fuhrer:
Yeah, and resources, as you brought up, I feel like that’s the most important thing, is the heads of these companies realizing what resources are required to do dance on film properly, to do it justice…

Garen Scribner:
That’s right.

Margaret Fuhrer:
…so that you can actually make some money off of it, which is not an insignificant part of the equation.

All right. So changing gears a little bit here: You are starting a different type of adventure. You’re heading to Harvard. You’re going to get your master’s in public administration, which, congrats. That’s fantastic.

Garen Scribner:
Thank you so much.

Margaret Fuhrer:
So what prompted that move? And here I’m going to reveal my own ignorance, but what does one actually study in a public administration program?

Garen Scribner:
Yeah, it’s a great question. And a year from now, I’m going to be able to answer it in a way better way. But essentially I heard about this program back in 2005 or six, when Damien Woetzel came and was visiting San Francisco Ballet at the time. I was a young dancer, just been there a couple of years. And I was just chatting with him in the dancers’ lounge. And he was telling me that he was getting his masters. Damian did the same program. And he was telling me about it. And I had just started my undergrad. I did my BA part-time while I was at San Francisco Ballet. It took me seven years—I did the LEAP program and graduated from St Mary’s. And so I had just started my undergrad, and he was telling me about the program.

Essentially the master’s in public administration at Harvard, at the Kennedy School of Government, it’s a leadership, ethics management and policy degree. Those are the focuses. And it’s looking at those kind of fields of study through different lenses. A lot of it is policy-focused, so, how do we shift the ways in which things are funded, how things are modeled, how strategic planning is approached and all of those things. And it’s not necessarily an arts degree. So I think that’s one of the things that attracted me to it.

I thought about getting an arts administration degree, but I was looking for something that was a little bit more broad. And this program, because it’s a mid-career program, is sort of a two year degree condensed into one. It adds a summer term and then the fall term, winter and spring. And so there are certain courses that are required, but to a certain extent I can design my own curriculum. So because I do want to come back into the performing arts world and be part of the next generation of leadership, I’m certainly going to focus a lot of what I study in terms of how I do all this, how I want to do all the things I want to do.

So I’m hoping there’s a lot of flexibility within the program, but again, I will get back to you in a year.

Margaret Fuhrer:
Well, so maybe you can’t answer this follow-up question now, but what types of courses, or what types of subjects will you be able to study in a public administration program that you wouldn’t be able to in an arts administration program?

Garen Scribner:
Yeah. So I think there are certainly lots of classes. I mean, some of the things that come to mind are the art of communication, the art of persuasion, those are kind of some of the soft skill courses, but then there are a lot of micro economics courses, hard skill stuff, quantitative reasoning stuff. MATH. Math in all caps. When you’re able to look at data and figure out, what has happened in the past and how we model for the future, that is power. And that’s how you can make change and be impactful in your work and efficient in your work.

And I feel like for the past four years that I’ve been on my, own since I left American in Paris—before that, I was always in a company, I was always with a show, and I had a great support system and a wellness program, and I could go to physical therapy and I was paid every week. And for the past four years, I’ve just been freestyling, just really on my own. And I’ve learned a lot and it’s been great. It’s also been really hard. And so I’m certainly looking forward to taking what I know and my artistic training, and then sort of translating that into different contexts, in different spaces and really kind of formalizing what I know, but I think I need to organize it in my mind a little better.

Margaret Fuhrer:
Well, and I love the emphasis on hard skills and especially on data, because the dance world generally just needs more data. That’s so critical to so much of what we’re trying to get done. And there just isn’t enough data gathering happening. But I also think a lot of dance artists have sort of been told for their whole lives, like, “You’re a soft skills person, and empathy and the arts, this is what you do.” And sometimes that is internalized in a way that makes it hard for dancers to branch out after it, and say, “Well, maybe I need to learn these math skills. Maybe this is part of my path forward.” And I think you actually really see that play out a lot in arts leadership, when, of course the former dancers coming in have so much to bring to the table, but there are gaps in their expertise.

Garen Scribner:
Yeah. That is a great point, Margaret. And I think there’s a lot to be said about people taking on leadership roles with a little bit more backing up their skills and natural talents. How do we actually approach management from an ethical standpoint, from a behavioral approach? When you manage people, to make sure people feel good in the jobs that they’re doing, and they feel supported and that they feel that they’re really taken care of. Because that’s when people produce great work.

And so what I love is when I’m able to, in anything that I’m producing, if I’m able to support those artists who I see as having voices that really need to be heard, and they are not necessarily able to bring that work up to a point where people are able to see it and really make an impact and get it spread far and wide—I feel great when sort of my natural talents and skills can help bolster and amplify somebody else’s voice, especially if that voice has been marginalized in the past.

And there’s one other thing I wanted to say about this topic, is that I think one of the big things that I kept hearing when I was in the San Francisco Ballet, in particular, being in the Bay Area. The company was always trying to bring in the tech folks. “How do we get the tech folks in and get those butts in seats?” And really, they meant, “How do we have access to that money?” Because a lot of the people who support dance are Boomers and up, and once they are not around any longer, how do we support these nonprofit institutions? And I think that people are like, “Well, let’s just get the check money.” How do we get them to love what we’re doing? And instead, kind of saying, “Well, what do rising generations want to see without compromising the work itself?”

We’re always going to protect those classical ballets and continue to elevate the form and shepherd it. But how do we create work that they want to see? We don’t want to just lure them to what we’re doing in the dark, without opening the doors. We need to say, “Well, what are they interested in, and how can we use what we know in dance, but also expand?” And then maybe they’ll come to us, because they want to know what’s going on. So it’s rather… I think it’s about, there’s a lot of change that is possible, but it has to be done with creativity and strategy.

Margaret Fuhrer:
Yeah. Instead of thinking backwards, as we tend to do.

So you’ve already started answering my next question, which is an enormous question—you can just keep answering it. As an emerging leader in this field, what do you are some of the most urgent challenges facing the arts world today and especially the dance world? What are you most eager to get in and start fixing?

Garen Scribner:
Ooh. Yeah. That’s a big one, Margaret.

Margaret Fuhrer:
This is the question.

Garen Scribner:
Yeah. I think there’s a lot to be said for staying flexible. I mean, the past 14 months has been very…that. And especially, I mean, for me specifically, when we were stopped in our tracks in March of 2020, I had to rethink everything that I was doing and think about what would move me creatively, what would pay my bills and hopefully, what would be something new and interesting for people that they’d want to see. And that brought me to make “Corps-en-tine” for Australian Ballet and the Swan Lake film for UNCSA and things like that. I wouldn’t have made those things had we not been in the place where… And I know that’s the same for so many dancers and creative people across the board. So I think it’s about staying flexible and being ready to pivot, ball change, step, step, step, pivot change. For sure.

But zooming out a little bit. A broader problem, I think, in our country is that we have to advocate for the arts and culture sector. Which by the way, the arts and cultural sector is, I don’t know the number, we would have to look at the NEA, but it’s some insane amount of money, billions and billions and billions of dollars, more than transportation, more than the airline industry. We bring in more money, our economy is larger than so many other sectors. Yet there is hardly any support in terms of policy. There’s no one lobbying for us in DC, I’ll tell you that much. And so I think it’s about looking at new models of funding and new policy to hopefully change how the arts are actually underpinned in our society, because they’re really important, and they change people’s lives and they keep people out of trouble, and they let people focus on positive things.

And if there’s one thing I can do, it’s help encourage people to play music, learn an instrument, learn how to dance, learn how to paint, be in the play. It encourages compassion and empathy. And most importantly, we’re telling stories. And when you hear people’s stories and you understand more about people, there’s more to love. And we understand each other better, there’s more conversation. And these are the things that we need in our world more than ever.

Margaret Fuhrer:
Creativity breeds empathy. Always. I was reading…where was this article? I think it was probably in the Times. Somebody making a very thorough case for government support of the arts. And I think he said that you should think of the arts as part of our national infrastructure. Because really they offer… They provide a lot of the same functions in terms of how they are incorporated into everybody’s lives and the services that they offer to people. And that’s really it.

Garen Scribner:
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we had… There’s a history in our government that the Works Progress Administration, they used to do this. They used to support artists and provide them with resources so that they could do their work and have access to healthcare and a place to live. And I think this is… It’s tough for America, because we’re not used to that kind of government support in the arts, and in Europe, it’s a totally different system. I remember what that was like in Holland. There are pros and cons. I think there’s somewhere we can meet in the middle, but that’s certainly, we can support artists and arts organizations in a much deeper way.

Margaret Fuhrer:
Yeah. And that recognition that artists are workers, that art is the work that they do. Because I think a lot of people—and it seems to be especially true in the United States—think of artists as doing something because they love it. You’re doing it for the love of it. And so the financial side, the healthcare side, those are secondary concerns. And it’s like, no, no, no, this is their job. This is the work that they do. And recognizing the dignity of that work and supporting it and creating workplace environments that have the same protections and privileges as any other office environment—just because your office is not a conventional space, it doesn’t mean that artists don’t deserve those same protections.

Anyway, now I’m on a soap box. I have to stop.

Garen Scribner:
I love it.

Margaret Fuhrer:
Well, switching gears a little bit again, because I’d be remiss not to note that you are still performing too. So how do you see performance at this point in your career? Where does it fit in the overall picture for you?

Garen Scribner:
I still dance because I love it. I love it, love it, love it. And it’s the most authentic feeling I get, when I’m doing the thing that I know how to do and I have been trained to do since I was a seven year old kid. When I hear music I love, I just… It just moves me. It makes me feel good.

Also, excuse me: There is nothing better than being in dance shape. And I mean like dance shape, where you’re sore in the morning, you get out of bed and you have to take a few steps as the Tin Man. And then you kind of start to move again. You do some cat-cows on the floor and you start to feel better. There’s just nothing like that, that rigor and that currency of energy that’s flowing through you when you’re moving and pushing your body to the limit, like those endorphins are released.

And so, no, I’m not doing Swan Lake tomorrow, but I am 36 years old, but this is who I am, and any chance I can get to dance, I’m going to do it. And my back hurts, my foot still hurts. I had surgery on March 6th, 2020 actually.

Margaret Fuhrer:
Oh, my gosh.

Garen Scribner:
Yeah. I was dancing in La Traviata at the Met awith Sara Mearns, and I just kind of hurt my foot, and it was kind of weird. I went to see Dr. Bauman, and he was like, “Yeah, we’re going to have to pull a bone out now.” So as I was recovering at home with my foot up, the second week of March, the rest of the world around me started to join in sheltering in their homes too.

So, I’m never going to stop dancing. It feels profound.

Margaret Fuhrer:
And then finally, what other projects do you have—I know you’re about to head to school, but what other projects do you have on the horizon that listeners should know about?

Garen Scribner:
So I have been producing a film about the relentless and superstar ballerina Tiler Peck for the last two years plus. I had been working on a series with Chris Wheeldon about choreographers, a conceptual TV series that we pitched all over the place years ago, to all the big networks, and they all said no to it because they don’t understand…

Margaret Fuhrer:
Because they’re dumb.

Garen Scribner:
Right? But I met an incredible young director out of USC film school, his name is Alex Ramsey, and another producer, Eric Cook. And we all got together and decided to try and make this film about Tiler and her injury, and her recovery, and her second recovery, and her… I mean, then with the pandemic, it added a whole third act to our film.

And so we’ve just kind of been shooting for, at this point, years. And we have a really, really beautiful project, and we’re thinking that we’re going to shoot for another year. And so it’s a really long-term, long form thing. It’s most likely going to be a feature, but it could also be a 30 to 40 minute thing. We’re still… It’s deciding what it wants to be, but everybody keep a look out for that one.

And school, that’s the next big project. I’ll graduate in May of ’22. And we’ll see what happens after that.

Margaret Fuhrer:
I’ve heard bits and pieces about the Tiler project through the grapevine. It’s nice to hear a little bit more about it now. Where should people go to keep up with you and hear more news about this project as it becomes available?

Garen Scribner:
That’s a great question. You can follow me on Instagram @garenscribner. And my website is garenmedia.com. And as soon as things are made public, I will put something out about Tiler.

We just shot two weeks ago at The Kennedy Center, we shot her… Alonzo King made a new work for her. That was pretty amazing, and that space itself is just so cinematic…

Margaret Fuhrer:
It’s incredible.

Garen Scribner:
…and at the heartbeat of the nation in terms of the arts.

Margaret Fuhrer:
Had Tiler worked with Alonzo before?

Garen Scribner:
I think it’s their first time.

Margaret Fuhrer:
Yeah. Ooh, very curious to see that, too.

Well, Garen, thank you so much for taking the time today, because I know your schedule is all over the place, so really appreciate it. And merde for everything coming up!

Garen Scribner:
Thank you so much, Margaret. It’s been a pleasure.

[pause]

One more big thank-you to Garen—wishing him all the best on his new journey up in Boston. We have linked his website and social pages in the show notes so that you can give him a follow. And fingers crossed we get that promised third season of “Broadway Sandwich,” too, because that really is a great show—both of his PBS All Arts shows are great, but “Broadway Sandwich” is especially fun. You can and should go binge-watch the first two seasons at pbs.org.

Thanks for listening, everyone! Have a great weekend.