Margaret Fuhrer:
Hi, dance friends. I’m Margaret Fuhrer, content director for The Dance Edit newsletter and podcast. Welcome to the 20th episode of The Dance Edit Extra! It is wild to me that we’ve done 20 episodes already—thanks to all of you for coming along on the journey.

This episode, I talk with the multitalented and all-around delightful Caili Quan, who was a standout dancer with BalletX before leaving the company in 2020 to focus on her choreography. Which means she really started honing her choreographic voice right as we entered a global pandemic. What she found is that that voice kept leading her back home, home to Guam, where she grew up. Her 2020 dance film Love Letter, created as a pandemic project for BalletX, is a love letter to Guam, and you’ll hear her talk about that during our conversation. But she also says that her Chamorro Filipino heritage ends up shaping much of her movement, even if the work isn’t explicitly about identity.

Quan is in high demand right now—she has new works premiering what feels like everywhere over the next few months. This summer, she’ll be one of the Vail Dance Festival’s artists-in-residence, a position she’ll share with New York City Ballet soloist Roman Mejia. At Vail, Quan will make a solo for Mejia as well as a new work set to a commissioned score by Caroline Shaw, and it sounds like she’ll be dancing a bit too.

A quick glossary, before we get started: The Christine that Caili refers to is Christine Cox, artistic and executive director of BalletX, and the Damian she mentions is Damian Woetzel, artistic director of the Vail Dance Festival. Both have been ardent supporters of Quan in particular and of emerging choreographers in general.

OK, here’s Caili!

[pause]

Margaret Fuhrer:
Hi, Caili. Thank you so much for coming on The Dance Edit Extra today.

Caili Quan:
Thanks so much for having me. I’m so excited about this.

Margaret Fuhrer:
Yeah, I’m really grateful that you could make the time. Because I know you are everywhere these days. It seems like you have 16 different commissions at any one point. Congratulations.

Caili Quan:
Thanks so much. Yeah. It’s pretty surreal, but I feel like with freelancing, it’s a lot of hustling and running. And I think it’s just a part of the job, and I just feel so grateful for all the opportunities that have come into contact with me.

Margaret Fuhrer:
Yeah. And I want to talk about a bunch of those opportunities. But I actually wanted to start with a little bit of history. I want to talk about some of the different places where you’ve put down dance roots, because you were born and raised in Guam, you trained in New York City and then you were at BalletX in Philly for…was it eight years? How many years was it?

Caili Quan:
Yeah, eight seasons. I retired in the pandemic, August of 2020.

Margaret Fuhrer:
Yeah. Yeah. So can you talk a little bit about how each of those places and periods of your life helped shape you as an artist?

Caili Quan:
Yeah. So as you said, I was raised on Guam, the beautiful island of Guam. It’s where I fell in love with dance. And my instructor at the time who was a principal of Houston Ballet, he married a local, opened a dance school on Guam, but around my sophomore year of high school, he actually moved to Oregon. So I was without training for bit. I found a wonderful teacher, Bettina Sanzotta, who gave me privates, but she was basically like, “You have to leave island if you want to make this your profession. I’ve done everything I can, pretty much.” And so my mom, amazingly, let me leave for my senior of high school. She let me move to New York. I got into Ballet Academy East, which is a huge miracle. I’m still pretty shocked about that happening. But I went to live with my sister in New York. And so I finished my senior of high school, freshman year of college in New York City. So that was pretty… It was a wild transition, but it was for sure for the best.

And then I was a trainee with Richmond Ballet for two years and an apprentice with North Carolina Dance Theater, which is now Charlotte Ballet. I danced for a small classical company in Delaware before joining BalletX. So I’ve been up and down the East Coast, really trying to find where I belong, where I fit. So I took a long route for sure.

Margaret Fuhrer:
I wanted to talk about your retirement from BalletX, back during that first summer of the pandemic too. Because I think a lot of us in the audience weren’t quite ready to let go of you as a dancer yet, we selfishly wanted to see you on stage a little bit longer, to keep you! But why and how did you know that that was the moment that it was time to leave that chapter of your creative life behind?

Caili Quan:
Yeah. It was a really combative kind of push-pull internally, especially towards the last few years when I was at BalletX. We did a lot of new works, and that’s… BalletX is where I really fell in love with the creative process, because I got to be a part of so many new work processes. But towards the last two years before I retired, I really felt myself really pushing, being much more interested in choreographing than dancing, I felt… It’s weird. I’ll always… Dancing is my first love, forever. But I felt myself moving towards just being so fascinated by the creative process and really wanted to take the reins in front of a studio. Strange feeling. But it felt really right, and I told Christine in November of 2019. And cried in her office, and she was just incredibly supportive from really the moment that—I’d sent her an email a few years prior and I was like, “Oh, if there’s any new work for like a popup, please let me know.” And she was like, “Oh, let’s do something at the Barns.” She’s just been my number one supporter since I started wanting to choreograph.

But yeah, I just felt myself shifting quite organically. And to be completely honest, my body… I knew I wanted to go out really strong and I felt it took a little bit more time with every season that passed in terms of dancers and how we have to like really take care of our bodies depending on the day. But yeah. I always love dancing, but I just love making dances. I love it.

Margaret Fuhrer:
Yeah. I know, because BalletX is just… It’s such a laboratory. It’s just always new works all the time. Were there any creative processes in particular that you were involved in where you were like, “Yeah. This is what I want to do. This is where I want to be”?

Caili Quan:
Yeah. There’s been a bunch. I feel in terms of favorite processes and Nicolo Fonte is a… I’m a huge fan. I got to be in three of his new works for the company. Three. Yeah. Just wanted to make sure. And he has this unbelievable energy to pull everyone in the room up. He basically makes you scream with your body. Chloe Perks was a former dancer with BalletX. She said it best. She was like, “Nicolo makes you scream with your body.” And it’s exactly what he does. And even you think like, “I won’t be able to do this.” And somehow he gets you to just execute these crazy things. So Nicolo is one of my favorites. And Matthew Neenan. Who’s just… I feel like I’ve never done work like that where I felt so much like myself on stage. And I think that is one of his, on top of many, many gifts of creating dances, I’ve felt most like myself in Matt’s work. And so yeah. I feel like there’s so many.

So in terms of movement, in terms of process, we’ve had lots of choreographers that come in and it’s very collaborative, where the dancers come up with material. And that’s when I really knew. I was like, “Ooh, I really like this quite a lot.” And then my mind would go like, “What if we tried it like this?” I just didn’t know. Looking back, I realized that I always loved choreographing. I just didn’t really have the gumption to try it until a little bit later. But yeah.

Margaret Fuhrer:
I mean, that’s actually… That’s my next question, is when and how you did sort of identify that particular creative drive inside yourself? And then when did you start working on it in a professional environment? I think you’ve been doing it longer than most people realize.

Caili Quan:
Yeah. I think the first time I really felt… The first time I was part of a new work was dancing as an apprentice with North Carolina Dance Theatre. And I got to do two new works, two contemporary new works, brand new, by Mark Diamond who was resident choreographer at the time, and David Ingram, one of the company dancers at the time. And that’s when I was like, “oh, I see. This is exactly what I want to be part of.” That conversation between a choreographer and a dancer in the room when you’re just making something out of nothing is unbelievably special and quite a gift. Especially watching it as well. Not just me as a dancer, but watching the conversation between the choreographer and a dancer. It’s just—the craziest things unfold out of nowhere.

And that’s when I knew I was like, “oh man, that’s what I want.” I felt like I’ve never fit in a box. And I felt like creating new work got me to expand what the box was for me as a dancer. I think also, and not to make it about growing up as a woman in the field, but I feel like I was too afraid to voice my opinion until later in life. Because I wanted that safe space to not do as I’m told, but to follow direction. And I wish someone had just snapped me out of it and been like, “You have a say, you have a voice, you have an opinion earlier.” Because I think I would’ve started making dances sooner. But I think I started around like 2016, was when I started really using my layoff time as I would just fill as much as possible with moments to create, even with friends. I just loved it so much.

Margaret Fuhrer:
That’s such a classic thing that women in particular in dance are taught to be… I mean, obedience is trained into us from such a young age that it’s a really hard thing to break when you’re older. Yeah.

Caili Quan:
Yeah. For sure.

Margaret Fuhrer:
It does seem like that’s changing slowly, a little bit at a time.

Caili Quan:
Yeah. I know every time I see a woman who like… Or a dancer in front of me where I’m like, “Have you tried choreographing?” I’m like, “Just go into a studio, play your favorite song and improvise.” It’s just the type of thing where really all you need is that one opening where you realize that you fall in love with it. You just need that one door to open. And you’re like, “Oh, this is awesome.” So every time I feel like I meet dancers I’m like, “Have you choreographed yet?”

Margaret Fuhrer:
You’re opening doors everywhere you go.

Caili Quan:
[laughter] Yes! Really! I’m like, “How many doors can I open?” But yeah. I know, the obedience, it’s interesting. I also was always naturally the worst, technically the worst dancer in the room. So I think that even made me want to be more obedient, just to try to keep up. If that makes sense. But yeah, I’m grateful for the past that I have had. I think it took me long time to get here, but I’m very happy.

Margaret Fuhrer:
Yeah. I think a lot of choreographers who are still currently, or were until recently, professional dancers, their dances often look like them. You can identify, even on other dancer’s bodies, the way that that choreographer’s body likes to move. How much of you, the dancer, do you think ends up in your choreographic work?

Caili Quan:
I feel like right now, since I’m still desperate to move and show as much as I can, I think a lot of it ends up in the work initially, especially those first few days where you’re teaching phrase work. And then afterwards, once the dancers and I have created this trust, I like to sit and watch and see how they digest the material that I give them and see how it marinates into their body. And then we go from there.

So I feel like I always start with me, because that’s really all I know, is what feels good on my body. And then after we establish that connection, then I would be like, “So what do you want to do with that? How does that feel? Where do you want to go next?” So I feel like a lot of it is probably inside of my work right now. But I feel like hopefully I can get better at choreographing and I can just sit and tell them what to do and moves magically happen. But I’m still working on my craft, seeing what my process is like.

Margaret Fuhrer:
Oh see, I don’t think that way of choreographing is necessarily a better way, I don’t know. But I love the way you phrased that though, because yeah, I mean, of course you are the starting point, your own body, but then what you’re trying to do is give them themselves, as you were talking about with Matt Neenan, just figuring out how to tailor the dance to them as people, which is so… That’s what a good, generous choreographer does.

Caili Quan:
Totally. Yeah. I wish, that’s my hope. I also want it to feel good on their bodies. I feel like a lot of the time for choreography, it’s, “Fit into this shape.” And I had a really hard time with those types of dances when I was at BalletX. I’m like, “But my body doesn’t make that shape.” So I feel like a lot of the time with the processes, I make it feel good. What do you want to do? Where’s your initiation coming from? I feel like if it feels good, they’ll want to do it and they’ll believe in it.

Margaret Fuhrer:
Yeah. That means a lot. Yeah.

So a few of your works now you’ve said have been inspired by your own identity, by the Chamorro Filipino culture that you grew up in. Can you talk about how and why that kind of exploration is important to you and how it spurs you creatively?

Caili Quan:
Yeah, absolutely. So I guess it has to bring me back to the piece I made for BalletX, right before I retired. So Christine approached me in 2019 saying, “There’s an opening for our summer series and I would like you to choreograph.” And I cried again in her office—lots of crying with Christine, just because our relationship is like that—and she was like, “Would you want to do this?” And I was like, “Oh, my gosh, I’ve been dreaming of this piece that honors where I come from for years.” In my mind I was like, “I want to do this five years from now, when I know what I’m doing and I know how to choreograph. I want to do it on BalletX”. So it just came a lot sooner than I expected. But I had an entire playlist that I narrowed down and I had the music.

In terms of identity, it’s everything that I come from, everything that I know, everything that made me fall in love with music and dance in the first place, it all comes from home. So I knew I wanted to make this piece just in terms of inspiration. That was literally the source of it. And my family and my dad especially loved Harry Belafonte. So I knew I wanted some Harry Belafonte music, some chants from the Pacific. And I just wanted to pull music that tugged at my heartstrings that felt like home to me. So I was super stoked.

And then March of 2020, happened and I was like, “Uh-oh, what’s going to happen? We don’t know.” Our spring series got canceled. And I was basically on the phone with Christine every single week just checking in on her, because I know artistic directors just did the most amazing things during something where you couldn’t plan for what’s next. And we would talk every week, and she was very progressive in terms of pivoting to this online platform, showing dance films. She was like, “We’re going to do it. We’re going to turn all of it into films.” And I was like, “Okay, all right.” Yeah. I was like, “Let’s do it.” I love it. She’s like, “Takes the crazy person to steer a crazy ship.” She kept saying that. But thinking back, it was quite… She’s just very forward thinking and she knew exactly what it was. She was like, “This is our reality for at least the next year.”

And so the company was socially distanced, rehearsing at home. I literally turned my living room into a studio. They gave us pieces of marley, I took barre and I choreographed my entire piece socially distanced into their dancers’—basically from my living space into theirs, which was bananas thinking back on it. But it really helped me with that steep learning curve to figuring out Zoom creative processes. BalletX really helped me with that.

And then we went on location and I had these great directors that helped me film, cinematographers Elliot deBruyn and Nathaniel Brown, who are now very good friends of mine, who really just jumped on to what I believed in and pushed it forward for me through cinema, a medium I completely don’t understand.

But going back to your initial question of identity, it’s everything. I realized I wanted to do that one piece inspired by Guam, but it really seeps into all of my work. Because as a creator you make what you know. That’s what I do at least. And I know Guam and I know the culture I grew up in. So I try to leave these tiny hints to home, the love letters to home in all my pieces as I naturally create them.

Margaret Fuhrer:
I want to go back for a second too, to something that you were saying earlier, because as you were talking about making this piece on Zoom, everybody isolated, everybody socially distant, and yet it’s a piece that is so deeply connected to your own roots, to your own sense of home. And that contrast was just hitting me in the face as you were saying, did it feel like that as it was happening too?

Caili Quan:
I just ran as fast as I could in a direction. And I was super afraid and super scared. I’m like, “Oh man, this piece is like my entire heart.” But I got super lucky because the dancers were… I knew all of them really well. They’re good friends of mine. So even with the Zoom lag, it was just nice to hang out with them in that kind of space. And I knew that I could rely on them really to digest the material even with the musical lag, really bring it home for me.

Elliot and Nate jumped on, and we had like a week to talk about it. I’m pretty sure I connected with—a friend of mine connected me with Elliot and it was a week and a half before we started filming and he was like, “Let’s do it.” And I was like, “Oh my gosh, great. Where are we going to go? Where are we going to film? What’s going to happen?” But I sent him a huge outline of… I basically divided the sections into… Each section of the film was inspired by a different facet of Guam’s culture. Because that’s what I could wrap my mind around. And I gave him a huge outline with pictures and explanations and Chamorro words and even the smallest gesture, like where in my mind it came from in terms of how it related to Guam, just so I can almost catch him up on what the inspiration was before he could film it. Because funny enough, he had never filmed dance, but he’s extraordinary, organic at filming movement. Him and Nate, I was just blown away. They’re documentary-based. But I look back and I’m so proud. So proud of what we did in the wildest time, and so fortunate that I had such a family really helping me through it.

Margaret Fuhrer:
And the end product was so beautiful, was so moving.

I’m sorry to do such an awkward pivot, but I want to pivot now to Vail to make sure that we get to Vail, because that is ostensibly the reason that we are talking today. And I know you’re something of a, like a Vail veteran at this point. Can you talk a little about what your involvement with the festival has been like and what makes that environment unique, what makes it special?

Caili Quan:
Yeah. Vail is a pretty extraordinary place. I feel like the first year we went, and I’m… Forgive me if I get the years wrong, I’m pretty sure it was 2014, was the first year that I went with BalletX, and I remember that first year crystal clear, we went and I was like, “This can’t be real.” I was taking company class and I was like, “No one will believe me when this very small girl from Guam is behind Alessandra Ferri.” You know what I mean?

Margaret Fuhrer:
This very small woman from Italy. [laughter]

Caili Quan:
[laughter] It’s true. But it was just the whole time I was like, “I feel like they’re going to know that I snuck in here. Someone’s going to realize and kick me out.” But so from that first year on, I was just… It’s just the most amazing place. And Damian just gathers these incredible artists from all different genres and just puts on these shows that are just spectacular.

And so even from 2014, and BalletX… Every year, we’re like, “This is our last year. We really got to soak it up because this is it.” And then we got to go, I think six, seven years, six or seven years in a row when I was dancing with them.

And then I retired from BalletX and I was actually planning, my family and I were like, “Let’s just go to Vail in 2021 and enjoy the festival.”And I was like, “Yeah. That sounds great.” And funny enough, Damian gave me a call a few months prior and was like, “Would you want to dance a little bit?” And I was like, “Excuse me. What do you mean? Are you punking me, Damian Woetzel?” And he called me and we chatted. And he was like, “Yeah. Just a little something.” And so I ended up dancing at the 2021 festival.

And then now I get to be the artist in residence, which is just if I could just list the number of things that I’m still shocked about, that would be for sure the top of the list.

Margaret Fuhrer:
Well, I mean, it’s a huge deal that you’re artist in residence, congrats. But it seems like there’s quite a lot of flexibility in that artist in residence role in terms of what it can entail or encompass. How was it described to you, and then did you help shape it as well?

Caili Quan:
When Damian told me about it a few months ago, it was kind of… I feel like just the nature of it, because I’m a choreographer and dancer, I think he’s shaping it in a way that I get to do both, which is just rad. I think I’ll mostly be choreographing, which is super exciting. I can’t share much, but I can share a few things. I’m choreographing a solo for Roman, which is extra. He’s a phenomenal dancer. I’m super excited to get into the studio with him and just be in awe. And I’m also collaborating on a new work with Caroline Shaw, composer Caroline Shaw. And I’ll be dancing a little bit. And of course teaching a bunch, which I’m which I love. Yeah.

Margaret Fuhrer:
Yeah. And I know it’s early days and I know you can’t really say much yet, but I was hoping we could talk a little bit about the two new works that you’ll be creating. Because I mean, Roman, the dancer of the moment, he’s incredible. What qualities of his are you most excited to explore and highlight?

Caili Quan:
I’ve seen him for a few years at Vail and he has a very clear, explosive quality. He just has… It reminds me of a superhero where he can harness all this energy with zero prep that comes out of nowhere. It’s like fireworks. But on top of that, he’s the sweetest guy. And we’ve only had very few like, “Hi Roman. How you doing?” in passing. But he is, from what I understand, he’s just the nicest guy and a great performer.

So in terms of his solo, and this is very early days and things may change so don’t quote me on this, but I’d love to play with different textures of how we can ebb and flow between this very explosive quality, and then that calm. I’d really love to play with that, because he has this crazy toolbox of technique. So that’ll be really exciting. I’ll let you know how that goes. I haven’t connected with them yet, but I’m very much looking forward to it.

Margaret Fuhrer:
Yeah. That dynamic interplay, that’ll be fascinating. And then Caroline Shaw, she’s like the composer of the moment. It seems like everybody in dance wants to work with her right now. Again, early days. But can you talk a little about, generally speaking, what makes her music appealing from a dance perspective?

Caili Quan:
Oh, yeah. So I’m a massive fan. Especially when I heard her music a few years ago at the festival, I was like, “This is…” There’s something very human about her compositions, that I can’t exactly put my finger on, but there’s a natural ebb and flow within her music, that I feel like ties beautifully with movements. And as a choreographer, when that ebb and flow is already in, within the music, and getting to just add to that natural humanity of it, I think that’s what makes her quite perfect for choreographic compositions. On top of her being the coolest person in the entire world. We went for a long walk, we connected a few weeks ago. I just wanted to chat. I’ve only again, seen her in passing at the festival, hugged her and been like, “Massive fan,” and then ran away. [laughter]

But we went for quite a long walk a few weeks ago and just talked about music. And I just wanted to get to know her, try to figure out how she creates. Walking around central park with Caroline Shaw! I was pretty shocked about it afterwards. But I’m super looking forward to it. I don’t really have that much experience getting to… Usually for me, I have the music and I listen to it on repeat. Spotify’s already like, “Too much. Turn it off.” And then I create the movement for it. So it’s very cool to start at the source at the same spot for music and movement, and see where we can go from there. And getting to do that with Caroline is just… It’s unbelievable. So I’m very excited about that collaboration. Yeah. I’m geeking out about that actually.

Margaret Fuhrer:
Yeah. I mean, so it sounds like that process will be very collaborative then. The two of you are talking out ideas together throughout the process?

Caili Quan:
Yeah. I would really love that. Music… I know I love it, but in terms of writing it, don’t know anything about it. And I feel like, if we could just put layers, if we could go back and forth in terms of the conversation. It almost would… As a choreographer, there’s lots of pressure on you to make a dance piece. The moment it’s collaborative, you can literally… My favorite part is like… Even with any collaborator, costume designer, cinematographer. The moment I have someone to bounce ideas off of—it’s still of course tough, you still make an art, you’re still making art, but it makes it so much more living. You can talk about it. It makes it more flexible. You have more… It’s a wider scope. Whatever. It feels like it’s what I’m constantly looking for is to widen my scope. But yeah, I would love it to be collaborative.

Margaret Fuhrer:
Yeah. The idea of widening your scope so it’s not just like, “All the ideas must come out of my own head.”

Caili Quan:
Totally. And so sometimes, especially when you’re tired, that’s what it feels like. And I try to have people around me that… It’s the hardest part about choreographing, is that it’s just a very scary place to be in all the time. And they don’t really tell you that. The first piece I ever made was for Columbia Ballet Collaborative. And I was super stoked, hanging out with the Columbia kids, I loved the dancers that I had, and we made this work, and I invited my family. And then I remember we were at a bar, just having a beer before the show. And then it hit me that people were actually going to—strangers were going to watch my piece. And all of a sudden I was like, “Oh my gosh. I really don’t feel good.” And my husband could sense. He’s like, “Are you okay?” I’m like, “Oh, no. I take it back. I don’t want to do this anymore.” [laughter]

And then of course it goes away and you watch the piece, and the dancers did beautifully. But there’s always that… It’s scary to put, it’s literally exposing a part of your heart, just taking it and then showing everyone, strangers, to critique. And it’s a very vulnerable place.

But even with that, I wouldn’t change my field for the world. I feel like it makes it… That’s all I can really do is try my best, give my heart and hope people relate with, even if it’s just a fraction of it.

Margaret Fuhrer:
Yeah. There’s nothing more vulnerable, nothing more naked than dance art. I mean, just because it’s rooted in a physical body in that specific way, which is what makes it terrifying, but that’s also why it holds so much power. It’s the eternal paradox. “I can’t do it, but I have to do it!”

Caili Quan:
I know. And I feel like, I hope it gets easier, but I don’t think it does. And now I think back of all my favorite choreographers who have moments before their premieres. And I get it. All you can do is make the process as great for the dancers as it is for you and hope they believe in it and then it’s off. It’s out of your hands completely.

But it’s amazing that we get to be artists. It’s quite a gift. And I try to remember that even when I’m freaking out, trying to make some good dance moves, it’s just a gift to do this.

Margaret Fuhrer:
So in addition to Vail, can you talk a little about some of the other projects that you have cooking right now that we should keep an eye out for? What else is terrifying you?

Caili Quan:
[laughter] Yeah. I’m working on a new work for American Repertory Ballet, which is super exciting. Ethan Stiefel actually reached out in January of last year. So I got to work with the dancers a few times, but the culture is just so beautiful there. And I’m making a piece inspired by how the body reacts in sleep. And the music is quite a soundtrack. She’s varied, but I really love it. And I think the dancers really love it too. I hope they seem to start grooving into it whenever it’s playing. But that premieres in early June.

And I created a piece for BalletX that premiered a few weeks ago, but we’re actually performing it at Esperanza at the end of May, which is super exciting. Christine is creating these kind of incubator projects that really are tailored for the different communities in Philadelphia, which is incredible. And so for the work with Esperanza, I tried to find a through line between the tomorrow Filipino culture that I grew up in, and Tanaquil [Marquez], who helps collaborate with me on this project, she’s Mexican American. And we had a lot of conversations in terms of colonization and what that means and identity again, sneaking in. And it was a very clear throughline with how we felt about it, in terms of Spain colonizing all of these countries that we call home, and why I feel so connected with Spanish music, even though… Don’t tell my mother, I took it for five years and I really don’t speak much of it. But I feel so connected with it musically. So the whole work is inspired by neat shows, which are like shadow boxes. So thought would be a cool idea to blow up a nicho, and create dances inspired by a shadow box.

And I have a bunch of projects lined up in the fall. I’m not sure how much I can tell you yet.

Margaret Fuhrer:
Stay tuned.

Caili Quan:
It’s wild ride. I’m very excited about it though.

Margaret Fuhrer:
The best rides are always wild rides.

Caili Quan:
It’s true. True. So true.

Margaret Fuhrer:
So I’m going to zoom out now with another identity-related question. Because we’re at this moment where there’s growing awareness of the underrepresentation of many different types of groups in dance, and specifically of the underrepresentation of Asian creative voices in dance. I have to note that of course, a lot of that awareness is thanks to the work of organizations like Final Bow for Yellowface, and then the New Gold Standard Arts Foundation, much credit to them. But in the same moment, Asian Americans continue to face rising levels of hate and violence. How have you been reconciling with and dealing with all of that, both as a creative person who’s a member of this community, and also just as a human?

Caili Quan:
Oh, yeah. That one’s loaded. That’s loaded.

Margaret Fuhrer:
That’s a lot. I know.

Caili Quan:
No. It’s so of these current times. Yeah.

So my mom’s here from Guam visiting for the summer, which I’m just… It’s amazing that she gets to be here for so long. I get to spend so much time with her. And I’m completely terrified of her taking the subway on her own. And that is with everything that has happened in the last few years. And it’s a completely legit… At first I’m like, “Am I being irrational?” It’s a completely legitimate fear. Even me taking the subway. I’ve never felt that in New York city. I lived here, I moved here when I was 16 and I was like, “Ooh, it’s like the safest place in the world.” There’s always people around, and so it’s very interesting how the world is shifted from the pandemic through everything we’ve been going through.

And all I can really do… I’ve thought about how I can help, how I can add. All I can really do is try my best to create a positive creative atmosphere, make dances that bring people joy and hope to inspire artists that look like me, to see that there is something else for someone. I’m very much emerging and I’m figuring it out as we go. But that’s really all I can do, I think, is that. Make art, and just be a good role model for young artists that look like me and share that there’s hope for the future.

Margaret Fuhrer:
So I’ll end with another enormous question, which I think you’ve already started to answer with your last answer. As you have developed your voice as a choreographer, what have you learned about your core values as an artist? What matters to you most as you’re making work and in the work that you’re making?

Caili Quan:
Oh, yeah. I care very much about the creative environment. I want dancers to feel open, but also give them room to work hard while I’m creating. And I don’t know if it’s because I recently retired and I was a part of so many processes and I know what that feels like, but I think that’s really important to me, that the dancers in front of me feel heard, that it’s a conversation. They’re a part of it, they’re not just bodies in space. With every work that I’ve created on Zoom and even in person, I think that’s really important to me, is the creative process and making sure that’s as positive and—I don’t know if fun is the right word, but I think it is. I think it’s important to have fun. I think what we do is so hard on both sides, on all the sides, even as a director, raising money, all of it is so hard, to make art. And I feel like the least we can do is create a great environment for dancers.

And I’ve said this a bunch, but I think coming out of the pandemic, my big goal right now is to make dances that bring people joy, and to give space for artists and their mental health. I think that’s also an issue that we will actually have to deal with for years, in terms of, it’s quite dramatic, what we all went through, and giving space to not feel okay. I think as dancers are, we’re like, super creators, we’re like super type A, and we feel like we’ve got to get back to as great as we were before, pretend like this massive break in life never happened and be at peak performance level. And it’s just different now. And I don’t think it’s for better or for worse. I feel like if anything, it’s better. I feel like performing—there’s just so much more heart. I go to performances and I’m just crying.

Margaret Fuhrer:
Same.

Caili Quan:
It’s seeing dancers that didn’t get to do it for quite some time, go back out there and just live. It’s like life personified on stage. Oh, my gosh, those first few shows… even now I’m just destroyed. And it’s kind of quite circular. It is therapy. Therapy for the dancer, therapy for the audience member. And we’re going to have to take care of each other for a while until we’re all in a better place. But thank god for art. Thank goodness for music. I’m just so grateful I get to make dances.

Margaret Fuhrer:
Who was it who said, dance is therapy and dancers need therapy?

Caili Quan:
Oh, that’s very accurate. [laughter]

Margaret Fuhrer:
I mean, that’s basically what you’re saying about making space for dancers to not be okay, and offering joy and fun in the times when you can. That’s what it’s all about. Yeah.

Caili Quan:
Yeah. Especially now. And especially young dancers. Professionals, they’ve already had an entire career, but the young dancers that are in that transitional period… I got to choreograph at Juilliard for Juilliard’s New Dances last semester, and it was the freshman class. And I realized that they spent their senior year on Zoom. And they were just glorious, super glorious, so ready to move, and their future is so bright. But I just wanted to make that space for them. I hope I did. I adore them.

But just to… It’s okay to not feel okay. Dancing is so hard. And then you take all of what we experienced in the last two years and put it on top of a very hard artistic path that you’ve chosen. Just props. Props to artists everywhere who keep making it in such a tough time.

Margaret Fuhrer:
Yep. Yep. Caili, thank you so much for, again, for making the time. Listeners in the show notes, we’ve got a link to the Vail Dance Festival website. You can find out more about Caili’s upcoming residency there. We’ve also got links to her personal accounts, so you can keep up with all the other projects she has going on, including the ones that American Repertory Ballet and BalletX that she mentioned. I’m so looking forward to seeing what you make! Merde for all of it.

Caili Quan:
Thanks Margaret. I really am a big fan of the podcast. I really appreciate you and this and connecting and… This is awesome!

[pause]

One more big thank-you to Caili. And thanks to all of you for subscribing to The Dance Edit Extra. We’ve got a really great new episode coming up for you in two weeks, on June 11th. Until then, you can keep up with us via The Dance Edit newsletter or The Dance Edit Podcast; visit thedanceedit.com to learn more about both.

Have a great weekend, everyone.